'geneivas' afikoman

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19 Apr 2009 13:20 #982 by Litvak
'geneivas' afikoman was created by Litvak
What is the minhag Ashkenaz regarding the taking of the afikoman by children at the seder that is practiced by some, and their 'selling' it back in exchange for gifts?

I believe it was opposed by certain gedolei Ashkenaz, such as the Chavos Yair, and in contemporary times Rav Shimon Schwab z"l.

Litvak

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23 Apr 2009 03:09 #990 by Michael
Replied by Michael on topic 'geneivas' afikoman
Rav Hamburger writes in the מדריך למנהג אשכנז the following:

יש הנוהגים, כדי להשאיר את הילדים עירניים, להניח להם לגנוב את האפיקומן ולקבל תמורתו מתנה כל שהיא
בזמן רבותינו הראשונים לא נהגו כן, אלא בליל הסדר יש שהיו משתעשעים עם ילדיהם בצורות שונות בין היתר בכך שהיו 'חוטפים' את מה שלפניהם ומחזירים להם דרך משחק, והילד היה נהנה מתשומת הלב
אף בדורות האחרונים לא היתה גניבת אפיקומן מקובלת בקרב רבים מבני אשכנז, ויש מגדולי האחרונים באשכנז שהתנגדו לגניבה זו בחריפות. יש אבות המחביאים את האפיקומן ומי מהילדים שמצליח למצאו מקבל פרס עבור תגליתו


Michael


The Chavas Yo'ir you mentioned in your posting is at Makor Chayim (Kitzur Halochos Siman תע"ז). He says that there is a minhag that the children steal the Afikomen Lechibuv Mitzvoh, but there is a place to cancel this Minhag.
Could you please bring the source you mentioned in the name of Rav Schwab?

FRBSH

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23 Apr 2009 18:24 #992 by Goldmeier
Replied by Goldmeier on topic 'geneivas' afikoman
our minhag was always not for the kids to steal the afikomen, but for the father to hide the afikomen and the kids would look for it (and then of course the father would have to redeem it).
the benefit of this is that there is no "theft" happening, and I think that is the source for the minhag....

Goldmeier

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23 Apr 2009 18:25 #993 by Daniel
Replied by Daniel on topic 'geneivas' afikoman
R' Schwab on Prayer, page 542. "There is another explanation of "chotfim matzos," which takes it to mean, literally: the matzos are snatched from one another. While this is not our Minhag, the reason for it is the same: to arouse the children's curiosity.
A related, and quite universal form of "chotfim matzos," is the Minhag that the children take the Matzah that will be used for the Afikoman while the father is distracted - and are offered a reward for its return. This little game keeps the children awake an interested until the reward is offered at the end of the meal.
I, personally, do not care for the term "stealing the Matzah." It is un-Jewish to steal even the afikoman! Lo Tignov, the prohibition against theft, includes...even if it is done for a prank. Notwithstanding the fact that the children taking the afikoman is not stealing, because it is not removed from the premises, it would still be wrong Chinuch to call it "stealing." Rather, I would call it "hiding" the Matzah, to be used later as the afikoman, which is called tzafun, hidden."

(By the way, I highly recommend the section on the Haggada in "R' Schwab on Prayer" (not that he needs my recommendation)

Daniel

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