When does the Shatz rise after Nefilas Apayim

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04 Jan 2012 14:24 - 04 Jul 2012 13:46 #2073 by Baruch Schwartz
When does the Shatz rise after Nefilas Apayim was created by Baruch Schwartz
When saying תחנון, after having been seated for נפילת אפיים and saying the מזמור, most people remain seated while they say שומר ישראל etc. (and, on Mondays and Thursdays, while they said ה' אלהי ישראל שוב מחרון אפך etc.), rising only when they arrive at ואנחנו לא נדע מה נעשה, as has become customary. But what about the ש"ץ: should he rise and return to the עמוד immediately after the מזמור, or does he also remain seated until he gets to ואנחנו לא נדע מה נעשה? The Ashkenaz minhag is a good way of checking into this, because in Ashkenaz שומר ישראל is only said on fast days, preserving the original custom: directly after the מזמור one says ואנחנו לא נדע etc., so there is no question as to when to rise--both the individual and the ש"ץ rise immediately after the מזמור.

Therefore, my question is: in MA, on Mondays and Thursdays does the ש"ץ rise and return to the עמוד to say ה' אלהי ישראל, and on fast days does he rise and return to the עמוד to say שומר ישראל, or does he remain seated?

Based on the answer to this question, those shuls that do say שומר ישראל every day should be able to direct the ש"ץ how to act.

Baruch Schwartz
Efrat

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08 Jan 2012 02:16 #2077 by Michael
Replied by Michael on topic When does the Shatz rise after Nefilas Apayim
The Chazzan does Nefilas apayim sitting close to the Omud, (in FFAM there was a special seat for the chazzan behind him for this part of Davening), and he sits there until Mah Na'ase, where he gets up like the congregation does.

Michael FRBSH

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09 Jan 2012 01:13 - 04 Jul 2012 13:47 #2080 by Baruch Schwartz
Replied by Baruch Schwartz on topic When does the Shatz rise after Nefilas Apayim
Just to be clear: What about on days when ה' אלהי ישראל שוב מחרון אפך is said? And what about on days when שומר ישראל is said? Doesn't the שץ return to the עמוד to say these aloud?

Baruch Schwartz

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09 Jan 2012 01:14 #2081 by Michael
Replied by Michael on topic When does the Shatz rise after Nefilas Apayim
No - he says it aloud seated in his place.

Michael

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04 Jul 2012 03:25 #2129 by RSteinberger
Replied by RSteinberger on topic When does the Shatz rise after Nefilas Apayim
In GGBH (London), the Shatz does not sit down at all but stays at the Omud.

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