Minhogim when not davening in a Minhag Ashkenaz minyan
- rallisw
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09 Jul 2009 13:32 #1114
by rallisw
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Minhogim when not davening in a Minhag Ashkenaz minyan was created by rallisw
Sub topic: Oleinu
If one happens to be davening in a minyan which is not Minhag Ashkenaz for Mincho/Arvis, during which the tzibbur says Oleinu in between the tefillous. Does one say Oleinu along with them? (I believe the halochoh is that when one walks into a minyon at the times they say Oleinu, even if one has not davened with them, one should say it along with them.) Does one say all of Oleinu, even though saying it according to our Nusach, is unnecessary?
Rallis
If one happens to be davening in a minyan which is not Minhag Ashkenaz for Mincho/Arvis, during which the tzibbur says Oleinu in between the tefillous. Does one say Oleinu along with them? (I believe the halochoh is that when one walks into a minyon at the times they say Oleinu, even if one has not davened with them, one should say it along with them.) Does one say all of Oleinu, even though saying it according to our Nusach, is unnecessary?
Rallis
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- rallisw
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09 Jul 2009 13:33 #1115
by rallisw
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Replied by rallisw on topic Minhogim when not davening in a Minhag Ashkenaz minyan
Sub topic: Beis Ovel
When attending a minyon in a Beis Ovel [Lou Oleinu], does one say "Lamnatzayach" along with the tzibbur, or does one say "Michtom L'Dovid" as our Minhog dictates? (Obviously I'm speaking about a case when one is not acting as the minyon's shliach tzibbur.)
Rallis
When attending a minyon in a Beis Ovel [Lou Oleinu], does one say "Lamnatzayach" along with the tzibbur, or does one say "Michtom L'Dovid" as our Minhog dictates? (Obviously I'm speaking about a case when one is not acting as the minyon's shliach tzibbur.)
Rallis
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- SBS
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10 Jul 2009 01:07 #1117
by SBS
Replied by SBS on topic Minhogim when not davening in a Minhag Ashkenaz minyan
Sub topic: Oleinu
The first paragraph of Oleinu is always said when in the presence of a minyan that is saying it. Otherwise it appears that we are not acknowledging Hashem as our melech Malchei Ham'lachim.
As for Oleinu: Is it only omitted when Mincha and Maariv follow right on the heels of each other, but in case of long breaks between them (example: davening mincha in the early afternoon and Maariv at night), then even after mincha it is said? Or is it never said after mincha?
Steven
The first paragraph of Oleinu is always said when in the presence of a minyan that is saying it. Otherwise it appears that we are not acknowledging Hashem as our melech Malchei Ham'lachim.
As for Oleinu: Is it only omitted when Mincha and Maariv follow right on the heels of each other, but in case of long breaks between them (example: davening mincha in the early afternoon and Maariv at night), then even after mincha it is said? Or is it never said after mincha?
Steven
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- Melech
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10 Jul 2009 01:08 #1118
by Melech
The Oruch Hashulchan says that one does not have to say Oleinu with a tzibbur that's saying it. Showing that you are modeh to what it says in oleinu is accomplished by bowing with the tzibbur, but actually reciting oleinu is not necessary.
Melech
Replied by Melech on topic Minhogim when not davening in a Minhag Ashkenaz minyan
Rallis wrote: (I believe the halochoh is that when one walks into a minyon at the times they say Oleinu, even if one has not davened with them, one should say it along with them).
The Oruch Hashulchan says that one does not have to say Oleinu with a tzibbur that's saying it. Showing that you are modeh to what it says in oleinu is accomplished by bowing with the tzibbur, but actually reciting oleinu is not necessary.
Melech
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- Michael
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10 Jul 2009 01:16 #1119
by Michael
Oleinu is said at the end of Davening when leaving Shul. Therefore when one Davens Mincho Ma'ariv together (or if there is a shiur in between, so people stay from the beginning of Mincho until after Ma'ariv), Oleinu is said only after Ma'ariv, but if they are Davened separately - Oleinu is said both after Mincho and after Ma'ariv.
It is the same with Shacharis and Musaf - when Shacharis is said alone (on weekdays), Oleinu is said at the end, but when it has Musaf after it - Oleinu is not said until after Musaf. On Yom Kippur when Mincho is said immediately after Musaf and after that come Ne'ilo and Ma'ariv - Oleinu is only said after Ma'ariv.
See more at this posting .
Michael
Replied by Michael on topic Minhogim when not davening in a Minhag Ashkenaz minyan
Steven wrote: As for Oleinu: Is it only omitted when Mincha and Maariv are said when after the other, but for long breaks (example: davening mincha in the early afternoon and Maariv at night) then even after mincha it is said? Or is it never said after mincha?
Oleinu is said at the end of Davening when leaving Shul. Therefore when one Davens Mincho Ma'ariv together (or if there is a shiur in between, so people stay from the beginning of Mincho until after Ma'ariv), Oleinu is said only after Ma'ariv, but if they are Davened separately - Oleinu is said both after Mincho and after Ma'ariv.
It is the same with Shacharis and Musaf - when Shacharis is said alone (on weekdays), Oleinu is said at the end, but when it has Musaf after it - Oleinu is not said until after Musaf. On Yom Kippur when Mincho is said immediately after Musaf and after that come Ne'ilo and Ma'ariv - Oleinu is only said after Ma'ariv.
See more at this posting .
Michael
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- Michael
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12 Jul 2009 02:39 #1125
by Michael
Replied by Michael on topic Minhogim when not davening in a Minhag Ashkenaz minyan
Sub topic: Beis Ovel
There is no specific Kepeida on which Perek to say, saying Michtom Ledovid is a late Kabbalistic Minhag that was done in Ashkenaz, but the important point was that there would be a possibility to say afterwards Kadish Yosom. When one is in Beis Ho'evel that says a different Perek - he should say with them.
Sub topic: Oleinu
When one is with a congregation he should participate with them and at least bow down as mentioned above, or say the whole Oleinu with the Tzibbur.
Michael FRBSH
There is no specific Kepeida on which Perek to say, saying Michtom Ledovid is a late Kabbalistic Minhag that was done in Ashkenaz, but the important point was that there would be a possibility to say afterwards Kadish Yosom. When one is in Beis Ho'evel that says a different Perek - he should say with them.
Sub topic: Oleinu
When one is with a congregation he should participate with them and at least bow down as mentioned above, or say the whole Oleinu with the Tzibbur.
Michael FRBSH
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- SRainus
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04 Aug 2009 22:26 #1198
by SRainus
Replied by SRainus on topic Minhogim when not davening in a Minhag Ashkenaz minyan
Should one say Brich Sh'mei with a Tzibbur not our own? According to RBSH there are some objectionable things there. This also we should say along?
SRainus
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- Michael
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04 Aug 2009 22:41 #1200
by Michael
Replied by Michael on topic Minhogim when not davening in a Minhag Ashkenaz minyan
I just asked Rav Hamburger, and he says it's better not to say Brich Shmei in such a case. On the other hand one should try not to give the impression that he's Poresh Min Hatzibbur.
It would be a good idea to say in that time parts of the Davening that he missed etc.
Michael
It would be a good idea to say in that time parts of the Davening that he missed etc.
Michael
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- MPerlman
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11 Aug 2009 21:24 #1258
by MPerlman
Replied by MPerlman on topic Minhogim when not davening in a Minhag Ashkenaz minyan
Michael wrote:
It would be a good idea to say in that time parts of the Davening that he missed etc.
How could he have missed parts of davening? Isn't he a Yekke?
MPerlman
It would be a good idea to say in that time parts of the Davening that he missed etc.
How could he have missed parts of davening? Isn't he a Yekke?
MPerlman
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- rallisw
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12 Oct 2009 15:10 #1458
by rallisw
Minhag Avoseinu Torah Hee!
Replied by rallisw on topic Minhogim when not davening in a Minhag Ashkenaz minyan
Sub topic: Kabbolas Shabbos on Youm Touv
If one is davening in a non MA shul, how makpid must one be to recite all of Kabbolas Shabbos when it occurs either Erev or on Youm Touv? How about in regard to Bameh Madlikin (which I understand according to FFDM, is said as well)?
Rallis
If one is davening in a non MA shul, how makpid must one be to recite all of Kabbolas Shabbos when it occurs either Erev or on Youm Touv? How about in regard to Bameh Madlikin (which I understand according to FFDM, is said as well)?
Rallis
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- Michael
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29 Oct 2009 03:34 #1472
by Michael
Replied by Michael on topic Minhogim when not davening in a Minhag Ashkenaz minyan
Sub topic: Kabbolas Shabbos on Youm Touv
There is no Halachic Chiyuv to say Kabbolas Shabbos, but this is a Minhag that was accepted. If someone has the Minhag to say it every Shabbos (including on Shabbos and Yom Tov, as in Minhag Ashkenaz), and he can say it in the shul in which he Davens, he should do so. But if they start Borchu etc., then he should Daven with them.
Bameh Madlikin also is not a complete Chiyuv, but it is a much older Minhag then Kabbolas Shabbos. If one can follow his own Minhag, even when the shul in which he is does not say it, then מהיות טוב he should do so.
Michael FRBSH
There is no Halachic Chiyuv to say Kabbolas Shabbos, but this is a Minhag that was accepted. If someone has the Minhag to say it every Shabbos (including on Shabbos and Yom Tov, as in Minhag Ashkenaz), and he can say it in the shul in which he Davens, he should do so. But if they start Borchu etc., then he should Daven with them.
Bameh Madlikin also is not a complete Chiyuv, but it is a much older Minhag then Kabbolas Shabbos. If one can follow his own Minhag, even when the shul in which he is does not say it, then מהיות טוב he should do so.
Michael FRBSH
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