Rosh Hashanah foods/Simanim

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02 Sep 2008 17:05 - 09 Oct 2012 00:17 #556 by Altgold
Rosh Hashanah foods/Simanim was created by Altgold
Is it the Ashkenazic custom to have the symbolic foods during the dinner meal on the first night of Rosh Hashanah? That is, the fish head, etc?

Is there any specific custom relative to the shape or type of challah used during the Yomim Noryaim?

Is it Ashkenazic custom to serve the Challah with honey instead of salt during the Yomim Noryaim?

Brian

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03 Sep 2008 00:11 #560 by ynathan
Replied by ynathan on topic Rosh Hashanah foods/Simanim
The Maharil mentions eating the head of a sheep. I'm trying to remember where I saw this, but the Maharam MeRothenburg dipped his fish in honey as well.

Yehuda Nathan

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03 Sep 2008 01:50 #570 by Michael
Replied by Michael on topic Rosh Hashanah foods/Simanim
The minimum which was done in every place was to dip an apple in honey. Those who could get more simonim tried to get the other simonim mentioned in the Gemoro.
The challos on Yomim Nouro'im are round.

Michael FRBSH

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27 Aug 2009 13:17 #1367 by rallisw
Replied by rallisw on topic Rosh Hashanah foods/Simanim
May one come up with a new food and it's accompanying YR?

Does one eat these foods on the 2nd night as well?

Rallis

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28 Aug 2009 19:27 #1372 by MPerlman
Replied by MPerlman on topic Rosh Hashanah foods/Simanim
Rav Heinemann from Baltimore (also a yekke) holds that one may come up with a new food and make up a YR. To this end, he would take a raisin on a celery stick and make a YR for a Raise in Salary, something that we all could use. However, one of my former Roshe Yeshiva, Rav Eliyahu Silbermann (also a yekke) held that one should be careful how one words the YR as one might create more harm than good. For example, a person should not have a spoonful of soup, Marak in Hebrew and say "Sheyimarku Avonoseinu", because we might not enjoy the cleansing. Perhaps one could add "Vlo al y'dei Yissurim Vachalayim Ra'im".

MPerlman

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28 Aug 2009 20:51 #1376 by Michael
Replied by Michael on topic Rosh Hashanah foods/Simanim
The Chasam Sofer says one should do the simonim mentioned in the Shulchan Oruch because they are most common, and if one can find the foods mentioned as simonim in the Gemoro, that is very good.
There was no Minhag to add simonim not mentioned, (like today people take Coca Cola and say Shetishma Koleinu etc.)

Michael FRBSH

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01 Sep 2009 04:43 #1379 by MPerlman
Replied by MPerlman on topic Rosh Hashanah foods/Simanim
The YR from Rav Heinemann and the Coca Cola one (I never heard of that one) are taking a new food and making a new YR. In Eastern Europe, though they could not obtain Rubya to say Sheyirbu Z'chuyoseinu, would eat carrots which called Meiren in Yiddish. Meiren has the same connotation as Sheyirbu. They would make then that YR with the carrots.

MPerlman

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15 Dec 2011 15:29 #2066 by Yisroel Strauss
Replied by Yisroel Strauss on topic Rosh Hashanah foods/Simanim

The challos on Yomim Nouro'im are round.

Are round challahs a German Minhag on R”H as claimed above? Until about 1970 only twisted and straight Challahs were sold in the bakeries under KAJ even for R”H and Shavuos. Now one can buy round also. (I am sure the rabbinate did not make these decisions.) My wife’s cousin, a baker in Brooklyn under KAJ, since about 1985 told me round was just easier on the bakers when they had to bake many. (I thought it was one of his jokes until I noticed one year in a WH bakery under KAJ when the last day of Pesach was Thursday that on Friday morning they only had round Challahs but when Pesach ended earlier in the week the Challahs were regular.)

Yisroel Strauss

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15 Dec 2011 15:30 - 27 Aug 2012 13:30 #2067 by Hamburger B. S.
Replied by Hamburger B. S. on topic Rosh Hashanah foods/Simanim
כתב נינו של ה'קרבן נתנאל', רבי יעקב יוקב ווייל, תורת שבת, קרלסרוה תקצ"ט, סי' רע"ד, סוף ס"ק ב': בכל מקום שראיתי, עושים בכל השנה הלחמים ארוכים, רק בר"ה עגולים

בהונגריה כתב נכדו של החת"ס, רבי שמעון סופר מערלוי בעל התעררות תשובה, בהוספות 'שיר מעון' לספר תורת משה לחת"ס, מהד' רביעאי, בודאפשעט תרפ"ח, עמ' קכט-קל (תורת משה, מהד' מכון חת"ס, ירושלים תשנ"ב, דברים, עמ' מז): "נראה לי טעם על מנהג בני ישראל שבאשכנז, שהלחמים שאופין מראש השנה עד הושענא רבה לכבוד שבת ויום טוב עושין אותם עגולים, מה שאין כן בכל השנה עושין אותן ארוכות. והטעם אפשר כמו שנוהגין שגם בערב יום כפור ובהושענא רבה מטבילין פרוסת המוציא בדבש ואוכלין הדברים שרגילין לאכול בראש השנה לסימן טוב, כמבואר בשולחן ערוך, ובראש השנה יכתבון וביום כפור יחתמון, ובהושענא רבה שהוא גמר החתימה עושין גם כן סימן טוב, וכן בלחמים עושין אותן עגולים, כי דבר עגול אין לו קץ וסוף, והוא לסימן טוב לאריכות ימים בלי קץ, ובלי ספק דברים אלו הנאכלים המה לעשות פועל דמיון שמחזק הענין לטובה וכמו שכתב הרמב"ן פרשת לך לך על פסוק והיה ברכה [בראשית יב, ו], וזה לשונו: ודע כי כל גזירת עירין כאשר תצא מכח גזירה אל פועל דמיון, תהיה הגזרה מתקיימת על כל פנים, ולכן יעשו הנביאים מעשה בנבואות כמאמר ירמיהו שצוה לברוך , וכן ענין אלישע בהניחו זרועו על הקשת [מלכים-ב יג, טז –יז]: 'ויאמר אלישע ירה ויור ויאמר חץ תשועה לה' וחץ תשועה בארם'. ונאמר שם [יג, יט]: 'ויקצוף עליו איש האלקים ויאמר להכות חמש או שש פעמים אז הכית את ארם עד כלה ועתה שלש פעמים תכה את ארם']. עד כאן לשונו. עיין שם בארוכה ותמצא נחת. ולכן עושין גם אנחנו דברים שמרמזים על ענינים לטובתינו

על כל פנים בשני ימי ראש השנה ודאי היה כן המנהג באשכנז דידן

Hamburger B.S.

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07 Oct 2012 18:51 - 09 Oct 2012 00:17 #2190 by aumann
Replied by aumann on topic Rosh Hashanah foods/Simanim
what about this question?

Is it Ashkenazic custom to serve the Challah with honey instead of salt during the Yomim Noryaim?

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12 Feb 2013 05:10 #2234 by Michael
Replied by Michael on topic Rosh Hashanah foods/Simanim
The first source for Challah with honey seems to be the Trumas Hadeshen (Ostreich). He mentions it as the Minhag in the first two days of Rosh Hashono. This is brought later also in the Mogen Avrohom. We don't find a Ashkenaz Reinus mentioning for such a minhag.
The Tur and then the Maharil bring the Minhag to dip the apple in the honey. This is found in Minhoegi Worms also. (The Shvus Ya'acov says the reason for this is so there will not be a sofek if to say later when eating the apple the Brocho on the apple or the honey).
At earlier times there was a Minhag to dip the head of the lamb in honey.

Michael FRBSH

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