Inserting Melodies in the Tefiloh

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03 Oct 2008 00:36 #638 by SBS
Is it permissible to apply new melodies in the tefiloh, and, if so, where? If it is permissible, then what are the guidelines the melody must adhere to?

Is it permissible to use melodies used on Shabbos for Yomim Noraim? I have seen this done and sense it may be inappropriate, but am not sure.

Steven

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03 Oct 2008 15:48 #646 by Michael
Replied by Michael on topic Inserting Melodies in the Tefiloh
In general every place that has "Nigun Nivchor" can have a new melody, and every place that has "Nigun Yodua" has it's own melody which should not be changed. The Divrei Kehillos writes on every melody if it is Yodua or Nivchor.
Also Niggunim Nivchorim sometimes become Niggunim Yedu'im, if in a community a specific melody was done for generations, and there could be a problem to change it, as mentioned in the Rm'o (תרי"ט ס"א).
Besides that - Harav Hirsch Zt'l had very specific requirements from the niggunim (even Nivchorim), and it may be unlikely that a new melody would answer these requirements.
You can see more about this subject in this posting , and there is a long article from R' Sho'ul Schneller about it in Yerushoseinu #3.

Michael FRBSH

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05 Dec 2008 02:15 #735 by Michael
Replied by Michael on topic Inserting Melodies in the Tefiloh
Minhag FFDM is to start Musaf at the second day of Rosh Hashono in the Shabbos melody (Kaddish before Shmone Esrei, and the first two Brochos, excluding Zochreinu Lechayim and Mi Chomoucho). The first two and last three Brochos of Chazoras Hashatz in Mincho of Rosh Hashono are done in the weekday melody (unless it falls on Shabbos, which in that case the last three Brochos are done in the Shabbos melody).
Psukei Desimroh and Birkos Hashachar do not have a special melody for Yomim Nouro'im, and (except for Adoun Oulom, Netilas Yodayim, Lehisatef Batzitzis, Boruch Sheomar and Hamelech and onwards) are done like on every Shabbos.
Besides that, the rest of the davening is done in Yomim Nouroim melody.
This applies to things which are Niggunim Yedu'im. Whatever is Niggun Nivchor could come from Shabbos theoretically, but then the question is if it has the right effect and if the melody suits these special days. For example - according to Minhag Ashkenaz, Houtzo'oh and Hachnoso, Ein Keiloukeinu, and even An'im Zemirous, have a special melody for Yomim Nouro'im, and the regular Shabbos melody is not used, even though this officially is done in a Niggun Nivchor.

Michael

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05 Dec 2008 02:58 #740 by SBS
Replied by SBS on topic Inserting Melodies in the Tefiloh
What about the Piyutim? Would it be an issue to use a Shabbos melody (like from one of the z'miros for Shabbos) for one of the piyutim for Yomim Noraim? I would think so, but I'd like to have some basis to make my argument. My point is that since there must be special tunes, then one should not adapt a Shabbos tune for a piyut.

Steven

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05 Dec 2008 03:01 #741 by Michael
Replied by Michael on topic Inserting Melodies in the Tefiloh
Any Piyyut which has a set melody, should definitely not be changed to any other melody (like Eder Vehod, A'apid etc.). The Piyyutim that don't have a set melody could theoretically use any melody, even a Shabbos melody, but again the question is if the Shabbos melody suits the words and the feeling one is supposed to have in those special days. Most of the Piyyutim have old Ashkenaz melodies, so it is always best to cling to those niggunim.

Michael

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04 Aug 2009 21:07 #1195 by SBS
Replied by SBS on topic Inserting Melodies in the Tefiloh
I'm interested to know what are the halachic musical requirements that a new melody must adhere to where it is allowed to be created and introduced into davening ? For instance: Japhet was commissioned by SRH to develop melodies that were incorporated into davening that we clearly use today. There are also clearly identified instances where a new melody may be introduced based on if something is a Nigun N'vchar or not. I would suggest that today we no longer create the music to fit the words but the reverse and that this is a reason not to introduce new melodies. If we really want to maintain minhogim and the nusach as it was practiced over the last 2000 years then shouldn't we not introduce any new melodies and why was it OK to do so 200 years ago? This ensures we don't lose any of the most ancient ones? Is there any posek that shares this view?

Steven

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06 Aug 2009 22:35 #1216 by MPerlman
Replied by MPerlman on topic Inserting Melodies in the Tefiloh

Michael wrote: Besides that - Harav Hirsch Zt'l had very specific requirements from the niggunim (even Nivchorim), and it may be unlikely that a new melody would answer these requirements.


Where are the requirements of Rav Hirsch written. I am interested in perusing them in their original, or translated, form.

MPerlman

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07 Aug 2009 17:59 #1221 by Michael
Replied by Michael on topic Inserting Melodies in the Tefiloh

Steven wrote: If we really want to maintain minhogim and the nusach as it was practiced over the last 2000 years then shouldn't we not introduce any new melodies and why was it OK to do so 200 years ago? This ensures we don't lose any of the most ancient ones?

In principal one can introduce new melodies, but it needs supervision of a Posek and Talmid Chochom like Rav Hirsch.

MPerlman wrote: Where are the requirements of Rav Hirsch written. I am interested in perusing them in their original, or translated, form.

You can find them in the Haskomo he gave to Japhet's notes. They were translated to Hebrew in Yerushoseinu #3, pg 257/

Michael FRBSH

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