In Washington Heights on Shabbos morning, shir shel yom is said after shacharis, whereas R. Hamburger says to say it after mussaf. Could you explain the differing hanhagos?

Alexander

Shir Shel Yom is something that came into the davening about 400 years ago. At first it was said by Yechidim before or after the Tefilla, and therefore even when it became something everyone said, it stayed in its place before or after the Tefilla but not in the middle of the Tefilla. It would be interesting to know how the minhag came to WH to say it in the middle of the Tefilla, between Shacharis and Musaf.

Michael FRBSH

I told Moreinu HaRav Hamburger Shlitoh [it's about time we bestow upon him an appropiate title] that my shul recites the yom before Kerias HaToroh. He commented that a shul in Berlin followed this practice because they were afraid that if it were recited after davening, people wouldn't stay and they wouldn't have a minyon for kaddish.

I hope this helps?

Rallis

I heard that in the late 1800's or early 1900's, a rav came into Frankfurt to visit for a Shabbos, and was surprised to see them say the shir shel yom after mussaf. He pointed out that the shir was sung in the Beis Hamikdosh with the korbon tomid of Shacharis (as the shir for the mussaf is one of the six aliyos in parashas Ha'azinu, on a rotating basis), so it doesn't make sense to recite it after mussaf. The Rov agreed with him and changed the minhag.

Melech

That's an interesting point. But if we really are trying to say the Shir Shel Yom as a Shirah on the Tefilla (because the Tefilla is instead of the Korbon), and for that reason we say the Shiroh of Tomid shel Shabbos just after Shacharis shel Shabbos - on Yom Tov we are completely wrong, since we say on Yom Tov the shir of weekdays and not even the Yom Tov Korbon Tomid's shir, See Rashi Rosh Hashono (Daf ל Omud ב, and for that reason the Chassam Sofer was opposed to saying on Yom Tov the words "שבו הלויים היו אומרים בבית המקדש ").
Are there more details about the Rov, and in which shul in Frankfurt this happened? In Divrei Kehillos (Minhogei Frankfurt year 1818, page 76) it is mentioned that Mizmor Shel Yom Hashabbos is said after Musaf (and after Shir Hayichud and Shir Hakovod).

Michael

The Chassam Sofer is in Beitzoh (Daf ד) and these are his words:
אנו נוהגים לומר ביו"ט שיר של אותו היום כשחל בחול, מ"מ אין לומר היום יום פלוני שבו היו הלויים אומרים כך וכך דדובר שקרים לא יכון

And the Mogen Avrohom (Siman קלב Se'if Koton ד) mentions that the reason we don't say on Yom tov the correct Shir that was said in Beis hamikdosh, is because the whole saying is only a זכר, something said to remember Beis Hamikdosh, therefore we don't have to be makpid so much on the exact Shir. And he ends saying that this is the reason we say Shir Shel Yom after Musaf, even though in Musaf there was a different Shir, because it's only done as a זכר.

Michael FRBSH

So is the Minhag to say שבו הלויים היו אומרים בבית המקדש on Yom Tov, or is the Minhag like the Chasam Sofer and not to say it? Was this the Chasam Sofer's personal hanhogah or was it accepted in throughout "Yekkish" kehilos?

Daniel

In the Rodelheim Machzor it does appear, and I would believe in most places it is said. Rav hamburger personally does not say it (since he is a descendant of the Chassam Sofer). Our Rov is going to give us the Hachro'oh what to do in our shul.

Michael

I understand that on a day when a different mizmour was recited by the Leviim of the Beis HaMikdosh than the regular Yom, the precise ones begin the daily Yom with "HaLeviim Oumrim B'Vais HaMikdosh". Exactly which days does this apply to aside from the Sholoush Regolim and Yomim Nouroim?

Rallis

The Chassam Sofer talks about Yomim Tovim. I would assume Yom Kippur is the same discussion, but on Rosh Hashono the Shir Shel Yom for Tomid Shel Shachar was the weekday Shir Shel Yom anyway (since the Edim would come many times later), so I don't think there could be a problem saying then "Hashir Shehaleviyim" etc.

Michael