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TOPIC: Tashlumei Kaddish etc. when missed, and Pores Al Shma

Tashlumei Kaddish etc. when missed, and Pores Al Shma 05 Jan 2011 17:14 #1874

  • GBaum
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If I can not go to Shul for a service, do I say תשלומי קדיש וברכו ליחיד?

If I did not hear Barachu, the Kaddish ,or Kedusha, for any of the 3 daily services according to our nusach, if I do say it, when is it added in the service?

GBaum
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Tashlumei Kaddish etc. when missed, and Pores Al Shma 08 Jan 2011 20:34 #1882

  • Michael
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Tashlumei Borchu is not an old Minhag (it is from around the 17 century), and would be considered a Hiddur.

FRBSH

If one is in shul and missed Borchu the time one can say it is before Chazoras Hashatz (of Shacharis), the Ovel says Chatzi Kaddish and then Borchu and after that the Chazzan starts with Chazoras Hashatz. This is called Pores Al Shma.
Rav Hamburger told me that in Minhogei Worms and Divrei Kehillos we see that this was done also in Mincho but without Borchu, (if someone missed the first Chatzi Kaddish - Chatzi Kaddish is said before Chazoras Hashatz), and in Shacharis it was done every day someone came late besides Shabbos Yom Tov and Yomim Noro'oim, (but on weekdays with Krias Hatorah, Channuka etc. it was said).
But it seems that nowadays it is only done in Shacharis, on days which have no Krias Hatorah, (this is the way it is done in KAJ WH, as I was told by R' Yisroel Strauss).

Michael
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Tashlumei Kaddish etc. when missed, and Pores Al Shma 13 Jan 2011 19:42 #1888

  • Michael
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I asked R' Yisroel Straus how Pores Al Shma is done in KAJ WH, and he wrote to me the following:
Anyone (even non-Avel) can be Pores al Shema (but only on non-kerias HaTorah days) although I have never seen someone with both parents do it.

1st Minyan where I davened 1980-2005. The Gabbai told me that Rav Schwab gave him permission even in the absence of late-comers because it disturbed the gabbai’s kavvanah checking for them. Eventually they stopped doing it as late-comers were rare and usually not many aveilim.

2nd Minyan. One of gabbaim whose seat was in the back and was not responsible for anything else at that minyan would send up someone if indeed a person came late. However about 3 years ago the gabbai started to run into resistance because that meant that the designated person would have to be next to the chazzan before the rav stepped back which meant finishing about 15 seconds before him. Therefore Pores al Shma was stopped unless there are many aveilim in shul and thus the designated one knows he won’t get a Kaddish otherwise.


Michael
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Tashlumei Kaddish etc. when missed, and Pores Al Shma 17 Jan 2011 10:50 #1894

  • Michael
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I asked Mr. R. Schleimer from GGBH how Pores Al Shma is done there, and he wrote to me the following:
As regards to Pores Al Shma we used to have this when we only had one Minyan in the morning. The Shamos Mr Brager used to say Chatzi Kaddish after the quiet Shemonah Esray before the repetition and say borachu.

However since we now have 3 minyonim on a weekday morning the practice has fallen into disuse.It is however in the grey book.

Pores Al Shma was only said on the days on which there was no Krias Hatorah and then only if someone was late. That's why it is no longer said because we have the other minyonim to make up.
Michael
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