Mishebeirach for Governments and Kingdoms

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28 Jul 2009 02:31 #1158 by SBS
What is the minhag regarding the recitation of a mishebayrach for governments and kingdoms? We know for a fact that tefillos were said for Kaiser Wilhelm as well as King Ludwig of Bavaria. How old is the nusach of "Hanosayn Teshua La'melachim"? According to minhag ashkenaz are these:

1) Said at all?
2) If they are said, where exactly in the davening is it said?
3) Is there a specific original nusach to be said and has it changed?
4) If it was said, was it universally accepted throughout ashkenaz?
5) What is/should be the minhag today?
6) When was the first time such a tefilloh was added to the davening?

Thanks,

Steven

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28 Jul 2009 02:55 #1159 by Michael
Replied by Michael on topic Mishebeirach for Governments and Kingdoms
Siddur Avodas Yisroel (Baer, pg 231) brings (after the Mi Shebeirach Lakohol) Hanosein Tshu'oh Lamelochim, and in the footnote brings the Kol Bo and the Abudraham as sources for this Minhag. This nusach is brought also in the Victor Goldschmidt Machzorim (the successor of the Rodelheim Machzorim). The Rodelheim Siddur (printed recently) does not have this nusach, but instead it has a nusach starting Niso Levoveinu el Kapayim, which is a Brocho for the country.

On the other hand, in the old Rodelheim Machzorim there is no mentioning at all of Hanosen Tshu'oh or any other Brocho.

The Divrei Kehillos (pg 74) writes after the Mi Sheberach Lakohol "הנותן תשועה וכו' לא אמרו בפרנקפורט מעולם, כל ימי אשר להם לבדם נתנה הארץ ולא עבר שר בתוכם", which means that until the days of Harav Hirsch (whom he is referring to by the letters שר) it was not said in FFAM.

Michael

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02 Aug 2009 03:33 #1168 by Michael
Replied by Michael on topic Mishebeirach for Governments and Kingdoms
I discussed this subject at length with R' Hamburger, and the history of the prayer for the governments is as follows:

The Abudraham brings this prayer, and so does the Orchos Chayim (R' Avrohom Milunil) as a יש אומרים. This means that this prayer was said over seven hundred years ago in Spain and in Provence. After about 200 years it came into Italy too, and later spread out to other places as well.

There is no specific Nusach used, (the Abudrohom and Kol Bo do not bring a Nusach). R' Shimon Akiva Baer, a Rav from The Czech Republic who presided in Germany, brings in his Siddur (1707) that Minhag Ashkenaz (Bohemia) is Hanosen Tshu'oh Lamelochim, and the Czech Minhag is to say Ho'Elokim asher Boro es Hashomayim. But there actually were some communities in Germany who said the second Nusach, and there were also other Nuscho'os used, however Hanosen Tshu'oh was the most common of them all.

Generally this prayer was said under governmental compulsion, or when there was a reason to say it in order to keep the proper relationship with the governments.
The prayer also varied according to political needs.
At the time of the Weimar republic, after WWI, there wasn't a king in Germany any more, therefore they had to change the Nusach (as mentioned above, in the Rodelheim Siddur we find now a Gebet fur das Vaterland, and not a prayer for the king).
At Hitler's (ימח שמו) time - it became even more complicated.

If a Kehillo used to say Hanosen Teshu'oh, they can stop it (or change the nusach) if they need to do so for good reason.

I also discussed this issue with a Yekki from NY, who sent me the following very interesting list:

1. In Russian siddurim you’ll find prayers for the Czar and his families.
2. There were any number of prayers for Napoleon as well, which would place the origin before 1800
3. In the Karlsruhe siddur of 1794 we find Hanosen Tshua
4. In the Vienna edition of 1803 there is nothing
5. Hanosen Tshua is found in the 1825 (second edition) of the Roedelheim Safa Brurah
6. It does not exist in the Hanau edition of 1784
7. Hanosen Tshua is found in the Metz siddur of 1788 as well as the Berlin edition of 1786
8. It is unknown in the Venice edition of 1598
9. Finally, Hanosen Tshua is found in the siddur of the Shela Hakadosh of 1717
10. I have also seen prayers for Frederick the Great, which would place it about 1760.
11. In the Jewish Encyclopedia (vol. 7, page 834) there is a picture there of an English siddur of 1714 that has a prayer for Queen Anne.

Michael

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03 Aug 2009 03:24 #1173 by Litvak
Replied by Litvak on topic Mishebeirach for Governments and Kingdoms
I just want to say that the above discussion only relates to specific texts of prayers for the government. However, the concept in general, that we are instructed to pray for the government, is an ancient one. We are taught in Pirkei Avos, in the Mishna, to pray for the peace of the government, and there is a similar thing stated in the Novi as well, to pray for the peace of the city to which they were exiled. So it is a very ancient thing. Just perhaps that in the past there was no set nusach for it, maybe people prayed it on their own, and only later it became somewhat more formalized and public perhaps.

Litvak

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06 Aug 2009 05:57 #1210 by Michael
Replied by Michael on topic Mishebeirach for Governments and Kingdoms
I was sent two very interesting examples of the Teffiloh for the Malchus said at certain times.
One is from the Carpentras Siddur, a Siddur following a separate Nusach, very different from Ashkenaz or Sepharad and probably has its origins in Nusach Provence. Please click here for the Nusach.
The second is from Germany at the time of Hitler (ימח שמו). Please click here for that Nusach.

Michael

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06 Aug 2009 22:16 #1214 by MPerlman
Replied by MPerlman on topic Mishebeirach for Governments and Kingdoms

Michael wrote: The Divrei Kehillos (pg 74) writes after the Mi Sheberach Lakohol "הנותן תשועה וכו' לא אמרו בפרנקפורט מעולם, כל ימי אשר להם לבדם נתנה הארץ ולא עבר שר בתוכם", which means that until the days of Harav Hirsch (whom he is referring to by the letters שר) it was not said in FFAM.

Does this mean that during the days of Rav Hirsch it was said? Or including RSRH's days?

He wrote: The second is from Germany at the time of Hitler (ימח שמו). Please click here for that Nusach.

Does this mean that the Nusach from the Roedelheim that we have in shul is from during the Hitlerite era?


And my final question is: Does all this mean that in Frankfurt a prayer for the government was not said at that point in the davening or elsewhen?

MPerlman

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06 Aug 2009 22:38 #1217 by SBS
In the picture you sent of the Nusach from a German siddur, I assume that this was not one from Frankfurt as it has the Ye'hi Ratzon for Rosh Chodesh bentching which I believe was not said according to nusach Frankfurt. Is that correct?

Steven

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07 Aug 2009 17:53 #1220 by Michael
Replied by Michael on topic Mishebeirach for Governments and Kingdoms

MPerlman wrote: Does this mean that during the days of Rav Hirsch it was said? Or including RSRH's days?
And my final question is: Does all this mean that in Frankfurt a prayer for the government was not said at that point in the davening or elsewhen?

Mi Sheberach for the government was not said in FFAM until Rav Hirsch started it in his shul. It may still not have been said in the other shuls, but in Rav Hirsch's shul it was said since he came, and R' Shlomo Zalman Geiger was upset with this change of Minhag, therefore he wrote what he wrote.

MPerlman wrote: Does this mean that the Nusach from the Roedelheim that we have in shul is from during the Hitlerite era?

The Nusach of this Tefilloh was changed many times, and in the Rodelheim you can find different Nuschous. The last nusach which was said in Hitler's times is the one printed today in the Goldschmidt edition too.

Steven wrote: In the picture you sent of the Nusach from a German siddur, I assume that this was not one from Frankfurt as it has the Ye'hi Ratzon for Rosh Chodesh bentching which I believe was not said according to nusach Frankfurt. Is that correct?


The picture is of a Rodelheim Siddur, which is not a Frankfurter Siddur, but is a Siddur that was meant to be used by as many people as possible, including people Davening Nusach Polin. As you mentioned - In FFAM Yehi Rotzon was not said before Mevorchim.

Michael FRBSH

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