Salt on Challoh/bread

What's the ta'am to put salt on the chalo? Is it a kabolo minhog (lematek et hadinim)?

Meir

Actually those who dip always dip, whether Shabbes Challah or weekday bread.

There are two reasons - one is a halachic reason - to make the bread taste better and the other is a kabbalistic reason - the table is a mizbeach and the korbanot were dipped in salt.

Since usually our bread today and for some time contains additional ingredients (besides the simple flour and water) the first reason is not so applicable and the dipping in salt not required.

At one of my sheva berachos in the home of Rav Baruch Borchardt z"l in Washingtone Heights, Rav Yisroel Belsky shlita said that in Frankfort, at the time of Shabbatai Tsvi (ym"sh), the rabbonim made a gezeirah not to dip the motsi into salt as a method of discerning between the followers of Shabbatai Tsvi and the followers of the rabbonim. Since the halachic reason was not pressing, the followers of the rabbonim would listen to the takanna. Since the followers of Sha"tz were very big on kabbolah, they would not mevateir on dipping the motsi into salt.

Rav Belsky held that the takkana of Frankfort was binding in Washington Heights.


Tsvi Rogin

Very interesting!

And what do we do on Rosh Hashono with the honey? Do we dip the chalo in the honey and salt, or only in the honey? (I saw that in Noheg Katson Yossef he writes that one should dip into honey and salt).

Meir

Tsvi Rogin wrote: There are two reasons - one is a halachic reason - to make the bread taste better and the other is a kabbalistic reason - the table is a mizbeach and the korbanot were dipped in salt.

The second reason is brought in the Ramo in Shulchan Aruch (167:5)

BTW, we have a Minhag not to dip the challa in salt on Friday night. My Opa zt"l explained that this is because there were no Korbanos put on the Mizbei'ach on Friday night, hence neither was there salt.

MPerlman

I asked this question to R' Hamburger (I heard it in the name of the Chasam Sofer):
Is there an Ashkenaz Minhag not to use salt on Friday night or is this a Minhag of the Chasam Sofer?

His reply:
מניעת מלח בליל שבת הוא מנהג של משפחות בודדות, ולא מנהג אשכנז כללי

Daniel

Must the salt be poured on the table and the challah dipped in it or is one supposed to sprinkle the salt onto the challah?

Steven

The following sentence appears above (I took the liberty of changing the spelling of Frankfurt to the original):
“Rav Belsky held that the takkana of Frankfurt was binding in Washington Heights (WH).” (It implies based on the preceding paragraphs that one is not allowed to dip bread in salt in WH.)

My main problem is a related pesak from Rav Shimon Schwab, ZT”L, that seems to run counter to Rav Belsky, Shlit”a’s, position. However since salt and Rav Belsky’s position on Minhag Frankfurt in WH is the topic at hand, I have to logically start with that.

Consider the following facts:

Although, in general, Rav Breuer, ZT”L, based Minhag KAJ on Minhag Frankfurt, he did make deliberate changes such as saying Yizkor on the 3 Regalim and YH”K.

I believe, that in no period post-World War II, were people from Frankfurt the majority in KAJ. (Sizable plurality until 1990, yes, but not majority.)
From speaking to some descendants of Frankfurters it seems to me that even in Frankfurt, pre World War II, bread was dipped into salt (maybe their memories of their fathers’ minhag were mistaken but I assume at least one them spoke correctly.)

From 1940 until fairly recently, KAJ was one of several large shuls in WH that followed the German rituals (including the one my parents (A”H) were members of) and there are other shuls in WH as well (i.e., those who say Berich Shemeh, which is definitely not Nusach Frankfurt).

Based on any of the above I would have to conclude that people in WH can continue to dip bread in salt.

I have davened nusach KAJ since 1975, even when I am not there. Nevertheless , Rav Schwab, ZT”L, told me that I should do what my father (a native of the small village of Geroda) did with regard to when the 11th of Tishri falls on Sunday (make a berachah on Besamim in the usual place in Havdalah) despite the explicit Minhag FFD”M and KAJ to omit Besamim! I am sure, had I asked him about dipping bread in salt he would have also told me to do as my father did (even if there were a Frankfurt takkanah against it).

Finally as a related manner I would like to mention that Nusach Frankfurt and KAJ did not eradicate all rituals based on (non-Talmudical) Kabbalistic practices (e.g., the Leviyim wash the Kohanim’s hands. Note that in the Mikdash the Kohanim washed their hands and feet by themselves).

Yisroel (aka Sidney) Strauss, WH

So is the Frankfurt minhag not to dip in salt on Friday night only or during the day too?

According to Minhag Ashkenaz is salt put on challah or bread only on Shabbos/Yontif and not on weekdays?
This seems to be the practice of many if not the actual minhag.