Tying the Teffilin around the hand and arm
- Daniel
- Topic Author
- Offline
Less
More
- Posts: 221
- Thank you received: 2
09 Jul 2008 12:13 #435
by Daniel
Tying the Teffilin around the hand and arm was created by Daniel
What is the Yekkish Minhag regarding tying Teffilin around one's hand? The way that I do it is three ties around the middle finger - one on the bottom and two around the middle. Is this a prevalent Minhag? My brother pointed out to me that the Shulchan Aruch does not have this - rather the bottom gets two and the middle gets one.
Daniel
Daniel
Please Log in to join the conversation.
- Michael
- Offline
11 Jul 2008 19:56 #446
by Michael
Replied by Michael on topic Tying the Teffilin around the hand and arm
The minhag is to tie the Retzu'ous around the hand, but tying around the fingers is not Ikar Hadin, therefore there is no one specific way to do. Everyone should follow his fathers steps and do as his father does.
Michael FRBSH
Michael FRBSH
Please Log in to join the conversation.
- Melech
- Offline
Less
More
- Posts: 112
- Thank you received: 3
11 Jul 2008 21:07 - 03 Nov 2013 15:36 #449
by Melech
Replied by Melech on topic Tying the Teffilin around the hand and arm
Although the רמב''ם writes in a תשובה that wrapping the רצועה around the middle finger is not מעכבת, it would seem to me that it still is a מן הדין, and not just a מנהג. This can be shown from the fact that the minimum שעור of the רצועה of the של יד is a size long enough to extend from the בית to the middle finger (after winding it around the arm enough to tighten the קשר). A minimum shiur certainly can be based on a פרט of a מצוה that is not מעכב, (compare the שעור of לולב, which is ג' טפחים וכדי לנענע, even though a person fulfills the מצוה by just picking up the מינים, even without נענוע), but I don't see how a minimum שעור of strap to fulfill the מצוה of תפלין של יד can be based on a winding around the middle finger which is only a מנהג. It would therefore appear to me that winding around the middle finger is
למצוה ולא לעכב.
Melech
למצוה ולא לעכב.
Melech
Please Log in to join the conversation.
- Michael
- Offline
14 Jul 2008 02:38 - 03 Nov 2013 15:37 #451
by Michael
Replied by Michael on topic Tying the Teffilin around the hand and arm
The Gemoro in Menochous (לה omud ב) says the shiur of tefillin is until the אצבע צרידה. Tosfos at first bring an argument about what finger is called tzreidoh, and then bring an explanation that the gemoro is talking about Tefillin Shel Yad, and the shiur is till the middle finger, (and this is the psak in Shulchan Oruch siman כז seif ח). Tosfos Bring that the shiur for Tefillin Shel Rosh is till the טבור, (see Shulchan Oruch seif יא).
Pouskei Ashkenaz held that these are the shiurim needed only, but there is no need to tie the retzuoh around the middle finger at all (as there is no connection between the Tefillin Shel Rosh and the טבור).
The Mekubolim (Pri Etz Chayim) learned from the shiur of Tefillin that the Tefillin should also be wrapped around the finger, and this minhag came slowly into Ashkenaz too.
You can see in the Shulchan Oruch also, that he holds the Tefillin don't have to be wrapped around the arm (!) Me'ikar Hadin, because in siman כה seif יא he paskens that one should put Tefillin shel Rosh imidiatly after putting on Tefillin Shel Yad, before he wraps the Retzuos around the arm, and the Mishnah Brurah explains that this is because the wrapping around the hand isn't Me'ikar Hadin. (And this was also Minhag Ashkenaz). Then he brings from the Ar"i Z"l that one should wrap around the hand first too because this is part of the mitzvoh, but not around the finger until after Tefillin Shel Rosh are put on.
Pouskei Ashkenaz held that these are the shiurim needed only, but there is no need to tie the retzuoh around the middle finger at all (as there is no connection between the Tefillin Shel Rosh and the טבור).
The Mekubolim (Pri Etz Chayim) learned from the shiur of Tefillin that the Tefillin should also be wrapped around the finger, and this minhag came slowly into Ashkenaz too.
You can see in the Shulchan Oruch also, that he holds the Tefillin don't have to be wrapped around the arm (!) Me'ikar Hadin, because in siman כה seif יא he paskens that one should put Tefillin shel Rosh imidiatly after putting on Tefillin Shel Yad, before he wraps the Retzuos around the arm, and the Mishnah Brurah explains that this is because the wrapping around the hand isn't Me'ikar Hadin. (And this was also Minhag Ashkenaz). Then he brings from the Ar"i Z"l that one should wrap around the hand first too because this is part of the mitzvoh, but not around the finger until after Tefillin Shel Rosh are put on.
Please Log in to join the conversation.
- meirk
- Offline
Less
More
- Posts: 79
- Thank you received: 0
06 Aug 2008 13:46 #513
by meirk
Meir Koschland
Replied by meirk on topic Tying the Teffilin around the hand and arm
The minhog of how to tie the Tefilin that I learned from my gradfather shy' it's to make 2 "turns" on the arm (below the "kibores"), and not only 1 turn, as the common ashkenazic minhog.
Is there a reason to this minhog?
Thanks!
Meir
Is there a reason to this minhog?
Thanks!
Meir
Meir Koschland
Please Log in to join the conversation.
- Michael
- Offline
08 Aug 2008 16:09 #520
by Michael
Replied by Michael on topic Tying the Teffilin around the hand and arm
If your Grandfather taught you to tie the Retzu'oh twice on the arm under the Tefillin, that must have been your family's Minhag. This is not the common minhag - most people following Minhag Ashkenaz tie it only once.
Michael FRBSH
Michael FRBSH
Please Log in to join the conversation.
- YbAa
- Offline
Less
More
- Posts: 46
- Thank you received: 0
01 Nov 2013 17:16 #2306
by YbAa
Replied by YbAa on topic Tying the Teffilin around the hand and arm
Is it true? That's why so many ways to wrap fingers and to draw letters on one's hand Chasiddim have!
Please correct me, there was no need to wrap the middle finger earlier? Just to wrap one's hand?
I know that Halakhah says tefillin must be worn all day long. If to wrap the finger it's hard to work with one's hands.
I saw an ancient Teimani way to tie arm-tefillin. Formely they're finished wraping on their arm (wrist) and later started to wrap the middle finger and to make a knot on a wrist.
Please correct me, there was no need to wrap the middle finger earlier? Just to wrap one's hand?
I know that Halakhah says tefillin must be worn all day long. If to wrap the finger it's hard to work with one's hands.
I saw an ancient Teimani way to tie arm-tefillin. Formely they're finished wraping on their arm (wrist) and later started to wrap the middle finger and to make a knot on a wrist.
Please Log in to join the conversation.
- YbAa
- Offline
Less
More
- Posts: 46
- Thank you received: 0
19 Nov 2013 02:21 #2320
by YbAa
Replied by YbAa on topic Tying the Teffilin around the hand and arm
I've read the comment to Mishna-Berurah: "Wrapped three times - two on the bone of the finger which is closest to the body, and once on the middle bone. And there are those who say that the first circuit should be around the middle bone, and only then two on the closest one."
It seems to me that the second way is used today. Am I right that the first variant is Ashkenazzi? Is there exist the real Ashkenazzi (Frankfurt) way to tie the middle finger?
May I make an assumption the second variant is the minimal requirement when the strap is finishing on the finger to make the knot on the last winding.
And when one have long enough strap there was invented the second variant (the middle-fulang ones and then twice palm-fulang)to go to the palm winding and knot there?
It seems to me that the second way is used today. Am I right that the first variant is Ashkenazzi? Is there exist the real Ashkenazzi (Frankfurt) way to tie the middle finger?
May I make an assumption the second variant is the minimal requirement when the strap is finishing on the finger to make the knot on the last winding.
And when one have long enough strap there was invented the second variant (the middle-fulang ones and then twice palm-fulang)to go to the palm winding and knot there?
Please Log in to join the conversation.
- YbAa
- Offline
Less
More
- Posts: 46
- Thank you received: 0
10 Mar 2014 02:15 #2356
by YbAa
Replied by YbAa on topic Tying the Teffilin around the hand and arm
I've read in the book about Minhog Ashkenaz that the Minhog Frankfurt is to put haTefilloh-shel-Yad and once r'tzua around the forearm and immediately shel-Rosh then continue forearm wrappings, is it so?
7 forearm wrappings then shel-Rosh then finger wrap, is this Ari's Minhog?
7 forearm wrappings then shel-Rosh then finger wrap, is this Ari's Minhog?
Please Log in to join the conversation.
- Michael
- Offline
10 Mar 2014 03:17 #2358
by Michael
Replied by Michael on topic Tying the Teffilin around the hand and arm
Correct, this Minhag is brought in Pri Etz Chaim of R' Chaim Vital (the Talmid of the Ari z'l), as you can see in the posting
above
.
Michael
Michael
Please Log in to join the conversation.